Comments on: Why Raising Hospital Prices is a Zero Sum Game https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2018/02/09/why-raising-hospital-prices-is-a-zero-sum-game/ Everything you always wanted to know about the Health Care system. But were afraid to ask. Thu, 16 Apr 2020 03:35:57 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.4 By: pjnelson https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2018/02/09/why-raising-hospital-prices-is-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-862815 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 14:16:14 +0000 https://thehealthcareblog.com/?p=93134#comment-862815 In reply to Barry Carol.

Parkinson’s Law affirmed.

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By: pjnelson https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2018/02/09/why-raising-hospital-prices-is-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-862814 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 14:09:28 +0000 https://thehealthcareblog.com/?p=93134#comment-862814 In reply to Barry Carol.

The best example of that occurred in California for the pricing of knee joint replacements. I don’t recall the local details, but the ultimate pricing at certain hospitals decreased by nearly 50%. Managing market share, net revenue can be offset by price transparency for certain isolated situations, but not for persons with an unusually high load of chronic disease.

Given the usual combination of medications for coronary disease, your health should last a very long time abetted by a trustworthy medical team. The resurgent use of carefully chosen CABG interventions is another example of the inherent adaptability of our nation’s healthcare, isolated may it be.

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By: Paul @ Pivot ConsultingLLC https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2018/02/09/why-raising-hospital-prices-is-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-862813 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 13:47:40 +0000 https://thehealthcareblog.com/?p=93134#comment-862813 In reply to William Palmer MD.

William Palmer’s point is a key one. And in my experience the non profit insurers go along with the “programitis” of the hospitals with the rationalization that it is good for the community….but we need to keep in mind the Blues are a cost plus business….More cost more revenue and higher compensation packages for hospital and insurer executives….with the wonderful self-congratulatory feeling of altruism and community responsibility.

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By: Barry Carol https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2018/02/09/why-raising-hospital-prices-is-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-862812 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 12:36:09 +0000 https://thehealthcareblog.com/?p=93134#comment-862812 In reply to pjnelson.

The thing about the 10% of the population that accounts for 70% of healthcare costs in any given year is that many of them are not the same patients from one year to the next. For example, it’s now been 18 years since I had my CABG. Since then, I’ve had three pretty expensive years, including the year of the CABG, and 15 inexpensive years where medical management was all I needed along with a stress echo every couple of years and a basic physical. All of my drugs are generics and about $1,100 per year altogether.

However, I do think price transparency would be helpful especially for hospital based care that can be scheduled in advance. Alternatively, reference pricing for the services, tests and procedures that lend themselves to the concept would also be useful.

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By: pjnelson https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2018/02/09/why-raising-hospital-prices-is-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-862811 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 04:09:06 +0000 https://thehealthcareblog.com/?p=93134#comment-862811 The initial construction cost of a hospital is probably close to $2 Million a bed or more depending on whether its a Trauma Center, has a maternity suite, has Psychiatric beds for adults as well as children, and/or performs open cardiac or transplant surgery. Compounding all of this are fire regulations (only so many alcohol dispensers for hand sanitation per patient area, automatic door closer systems, etc.), backup electrical generators, independent pipes for Oxygen as well as fresh air delivery, pressurized air delivery systems (especially for contagion control) that are all driven by layered and monitored regulatory systems. Its no wonder that hospital leadership drives its adaptability culture through adding new layers of responsibility and oversight. Span of control issues abound incessantly. Parkinson’s Law prevails.

The Power Law Distribution concept defines our fundamental social dilemma for healthcare: 10% of the population uses 70% of health spending, 35% of the population uses 25% of health spending, and 50% of the population uses 5% of health spending. It is unlikely that the current Paradigm for the healthcare of the 70% spending group can be changed with our current strategy for healthcare reform. Unless we have a national mandate to ameliorate the transition process of many citizens between the 5% spending group and the 25% spending group, there is no reason to anticipate a real change in the 70% spending group (other than rationing by a centralized, authoritarian and coercive financial process).

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By: Barry Carol https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2018/02/09/why-raising-hospital-prices-is-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-862810 Sat, 10 Feb 2018 22:58:44 +0000 https://thehealthcareblog.com/?p=93134#comment-862810 In reply to William Palmer MD.

Bigger isn’t always better. It’s management’s responsibility to know what their organization is good at and stay within what Warren Buffett calls its circle of competence. The for profit health insurance companies, for example, want to earn enough to at least cover their cost of capital. They don’t want to get bigger just for the sake of getting bigger. While United Healthcare recently expanded into urgent care centers and ambulatory surgical centers, you won’t see them buying hospitals in the U.S.

As it happens, for hospitals, there are surprisingly few economies of scale outside of purchasing supplies, spreading advertising costs and, perhaps, raising capital. They have to pay the same market prices for labor as their smaller competitors. The main incentive for them to get bigger is to enhance market power enough to raise prices and drive profitability that way. If anything, there are probably diseconomies of scale from the more complex management infrastructure required to run a large organization.

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By: William Palmer MD https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2018/02/09/why-raising-hospital-prices-is-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-862809 Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:15:55 +0000 https://thehealthcareblog.com/?p=93134#comment-862809 I was on the Advance Planning Committee of the Board of Trustees of a hospiral in the Bay Area some years back. I recall at one time we had more new programs than members of the active medical staff: Hospital Chaplaincy program; plasmapheresis program; bone marrow transplant program; establishing an outpatient commercial lab; purchasing nursing homes; computerizing blood banking; it even wanted to start a health plan….it was @150 new programs on the agenda!

UC Berkeley had set up a graduate school in hospital administration. Its graduates were all over the Bay Area in mid-management and these people were smart and aggressive and wanted to make their marks. They wanted large comprehesive hospital facilities and health systems that they could write research papers about and boast about to their peers. .

E.g. they would plan for weeks to develop strategy to approach the local CON (certificate of need) bureaucracy. Meetings with physicians were very carefully orchestrated, nothing being left to chance.

My point is to see hospitals as human creations no different from any new endeavor or architectural structure or work of art. As such there is a surfeit of pride and ambition and ego. They want to grow big too–just as does an insurer or a plan or a pharmaceutical firm.

My point is that all these vectors are working against the forces now trying to constrain costs; and they are very forceful and very fundamental dynamics in human psychology.

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By: Barry Carol https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2018/02/09/why-raising-hospital-prices-is-a-zero-sum-game/#comment-862807 Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:59:20 +0000 https://thehealthcareblog.com/?p=93134#comment-862807 Hospitals face two key challenges in my opinion. First, they are inherently high cost businesses because they’re labor intensive and they must operate 24 hours per day seven days per week. United Healthcare says that its ambulatory surgical centers can safely do many surgical procedures for half the cost or less of what a hospital would charge for the same operation. Whether or not payers actually pay the ASC’s half of what they pay the hospitals, I don’t know.

The second issue is that there are fewer and fewer procedures that need to be performed in a hospital. This is a huge challenge to the long term sustainability of the hospital business model. The number of licensed hospital inpatient beds is steadily declining and it appears that trend will continue for the foreseeable future even as the U.S. population ages.

So, it appears to me that hospital systems need to scale down their number of inpatient beds and put more capital into stand-alone imaging centers and ambulatory surgical centers and charge payers rates that fully reflect the much lower cost of operating those facilities. Perhaps they can get paid even more than they do now for organ transplants and other procedures that can only be done in a hospital. It’s understandable that payers have an economic interest in driving as much care as possible out of hospitals.

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